THN Archive: In 1984, Gretzky Talked Legacy, Diving and More In-Depth Interview

As any and every hockey fan knows, Wayne Gretzky was arguably the best player ever to lace up skates. 

In this exclusive, in-depth interview of Gretzky in THN’s May 4, 1984 edition (Vol. 37, Issue 31), Gretzky provided outstanding insight into the challenges he faced as the biggest star in the NHL and his day-to-day focus on always raising the competitive bar for himself and the Edmonton Oilers.

(And this is our regular reminder: to get full access to THN’s exclusive 76-year Archive, subscribe to the magazine.)

Just 23 years old when veteran Edmonton sportswriter Jim Matheson interviewed him, Gretzky was coming off his first trip to the Stanley Cup final. In the 1983-84 campaign, he would win the first of four Cups in his 20 seasons in hockey’s best league. But he was focused and driven to elevate his status, as he explained to Matheson, and he casually discussed feats of his that seem otherworldly in the modern-day NHL, such as the four times he cracked the 200-point plateau, his 92-goal season in 1981-92, as well as his 51-game point streak.

“Twenty years ago, if someone had said an NHL player would get 200 points, I don’t think anyone would have believed him,” Gretzky said. “To say that a player can get 250 points in a season, well, I don’t think that can be done now. But to say never? Never is an awful long time. There will be somebody to come along and break my records. It happens. I’ve had a good career so far, played on a good team, but someone will come along and break my records. No doubt about that.”

Gretzky also was famous for evading physical contact with opponents. It wasn’t as if he feared it, but he saw the game so clearly that he knew what to look out for and always seemed a step ahead of opposing players. And in typical Gretzky fashion, he deferred credit for it and instead talked about opponents playing fair with him.

“I get (hit) about once a year, roughly, if you average it out," Gretzky said. "It’s surprising how much class a lot of the (opposing) players have. The better players will take you out of the play, but they know there is no prize for putting a guy through the boards. I think that is the difference between pro hockey and junior hockey. Everybody in junior hockey tries to run everybody out of the rink whereas pro hockey is a game of getting in front of people, holding, punching, grabbing. Only the odd time will you see a guy get really nailed. But there’s a reason for that. Pro hockey is much faster than junior hockey. It’s tough to hit a guy who is going as fast as Glenn Anderson or a guy like Paul Coffey."

Incredibly, when Matheson broached the topic of diving, Gretzky answered about as honestly as you’ll see a professional athlete answer.

“Sure I do,” Gretzky said when diving came up in the conversation. “I mean I can’t stand there and let a guy hold me. Like I said, there’s an awful lot of holding, clutching and grabbing in the NHL. People get away with it all the time. That’s great for the checker. But I’m not Bryan Trottier or Mark Messier and I can’t throw someone to the ice or tell him if he does it again, I’ll hit him over the head. Those two guys are strong enough to back that up. If I said that, I’d be laughed at. I have to create room for myself. If a guy’s going to be all over me, sure, I’ll start diving. If it’s called a couple of times, he’ll back off a little. I don’t do it for any reason other than that.”

Gretzky also discussed the finances of the game. In today’s NHL, he’d be far and away the best-paid player, but in 1984, even a relatively modest amount of money seemed like a bridge too far for him.

“Hockey isn’t a game that has the revenue to allow for a $2-million-a-year contract,” Gretzky said. “I feel fortunate to make the money I do. I guess without being greedy, though, everyone would like to make more. But no, I’m fortunate. I’ll just play hard, do well and when it’s time to sign another contract, hopefully I’ll get what I think I’m worth.”

Gretzky retired at age 38 in 1999, but when Matheson asked him about potentially playing into his forties, Gretzky predicted he’d never get to that point – and he turned out to be right.

“I think the game has changed so much that you can’t play at that age anymore,” Gretzky said. “I won’t criticize the players who played 20 years ago. To me, Gordie Howe is the best player ever. So I won’t even touch that era. But 10 years from now, hockey is going to be so much better than it is right now, you just can’t compare. Coaching is better, training is better, equipment is better, players are bigger, stronger, faster. I’ll stand up and say that 10 years from now the hockey will be better than it is now.”

AN INTERVIEW WITH WAYNE GRETZKY

Vol. 37, No. 31, May 4, 1984

By Jim Matheson

Some people wonder why Edmonton Oiler superstar Wayne Gretzky gets as much attention as he does. The answer, it would seem obvious, is that no player in all of professional sport dominates his game the way the 23-year-old from Brantford, Ont., rules hockey.

In no other sport is it a foregone conclusion at the beginning of the season who will win the MVP honor, who will win the scoring championship and who will continue to reach personal milestones unequaled by anyone else in this era or those gone by.

So that’s why Wayne Gretzky receives the constant attention and adulation of the masses. And that’s why The Hockey News commissioned Edmonton Journal hockey writer Jim Matheson to interview The Great Gretzky and get his feelings and reflections on another outstanding season. The interview, conducted during a flight (not one of Wayne’s favorite places; he hates flying) to Los Angeles near the end of the regular season, begins on a topic near and dear to Gretzky’s heart — scoring points.

The Hockey News: Once again, you’ve scaled the 200-point mark. Do you feel that you have to get there in every future season?’

Wayne Gretzky: Well, every year that goes by gets tougher and tougher to produce as well as you did the previous year. Considering I’ve had three years at or around the 200-point range, I think I’ve been pretty consistent. I’ve always said that people like Bossy, Lafleur and Dionne maintain a level of consistency and that’s what separates the superstars from the stars.

THN: Was there a lot of disappointment at not scoring 100 goals this season?

WG: Yes, I was very disappointed about it. I had a tremendous shot at it. The fact that I played about four games with my sore shoulder and I missed six games because of it, well, that was about 10 hockey games. That disappointed me, but there’s always next year.

THN: Is there a limit as to how many points you can score in a season? Some people say the most anyone could ever get would be 250.

WG: Well, you’ve got to be realistic about it, but records are made to be broken. I don’t think there is any question about that. Twenty years ago, if someone had said an NHL player would get 200 points, I don’t think anyone would have believed him. To say that a player can get 250 points in a season, well, I don’t think that can be done now. But to say never? Never is an awful long time. There will be somebody to come along and break my records. It happens. I’ve had a good career so far, played on a good team, but someone will come along and break my records. No doubt about that.

THN: If you were to get only 150 or 160 points, do you think people would say you’re having a bad season?

WG: Yeah, that’s going to happen. I’m judged game in, game out and yearly by what I do offensively. So if it ever happens that I slip down to 160 points or so, there will be questions asked. I’ll be asking myself questions also. But you know you’ve had a good season if you can honestly say, “I gave it my best effort every game.” That’s all you can do.

THN: What about your record 51-game point streak this past season? It seemed it was preying on your mind as much as anything else.

WG: It was. No question. It became very difficult mentally, not only for me but the rest of the team. Everywhere they went, people were asking about it. Everywhere I went, people were asking about it. All the post-game interviews were directed at that, whether we won 3-1 or lost 8-1. The big question was whether the streak was intact or not. I had a lot of mixed emotions when it ended. It was a big relief but I was also disappointed I didn’t go longer.

THN: Was keeping the streak going harder than breaking Phil Esposito’s single-season scoring record?

WG: Yes. The hard thing about it was that every other record you flag down, you’re going to have an off night or a bad game and you can pick it up the next night. With the streak, there was no room for an off night. If you have a minor injury, which I had, or the flu or a cold or whatever, you still have to play or it’s over. It was difficult. I’m not saying that I played games that I wouldn’t have played if the streak was intact, but I played some games when, physically, I wasn’t at my best.

THN: It looked like your streak was over in Chicago (Game 46) but you scored with two seconds left. Did you think near the end of that game that it was all over?

WG: Yeah, I thought for sure it was over. I had missed a couple of chances, I hadn’t played that well, although the team had played a very good game. It was a tight game, 4-3 for us, and it was just one of those games where I didn’t quit until the full 60 minutes was over. I stole the puck and the rest is history, I put it in the empty net.

THN: Have you ever made a play like that before, where you knew you had only a few crucial seconds to do something?

WG: No. Well, that was the night the streak really hit me, I had been thinking about it and all that, but the reaction of the Chicago fans and the Chicago players being upset that I got my point, really showed me what was going on and the situation that I was in. I realized then that the other teams not only wanted to beat the Edmonton Oilers, they wanted to stop Wayne Gretzky from getting his point.

THN: How hurt was your shoulder when you were playing in those games?

WG: The night I got hurt against L.A., I didn’t get hit hard. Dave Taylor just took me out of the play and hit the top of my shoulder. I knew then that I was hurt. I played parts of the rest of the game and then we went to Palm Springs for four days. I was in the whirlpool twice a day. So by Wednesday night in Vancouver, my shoulder seemed fine. It was a little tender but it seemed okay. That night in Vancouver I got hit four or five times by Harold Snepsts. There was nothing dirty about it or anything like that, just the way he took me out of the play and the way he took me into the boards and hit my shoulder. It wasn’t really hard and it wasn’t unfair, but that’s when I really hurt my shoulder. Then we played a Friday night at home. It was sore but I played the next night against L.A. I would have played in all those games whether the streak was intact or not. I knew then, though, that my shoulder was restricting my movement, my skating, my shooting and that I’d have to sit out for a while.

THN: Do you think you should have taken the All-Star game off and then you might not have missed any games?

WG: Nah, the All-Star game wouldn’t have made any difference one way or another. I played probably a grand total of 12 minutes of hockey in the All-Star game. You know, you play four lines…I got hit one time accidentally at the blueline where I got caught in between two guys, but I was hurting before that. I would have played in the All-Star game no matter what.

THN: You have been remarkably free of injuries. Is that luck or good management?

WG: A lot of things. Luck, I guess. I’ve been very lucky. You know, everyone talks about hitting Gretzky, but as teams find out, we’ve got a lot of other outstanding players. It’s getting to the point now where it’s not as physical for me as it was four years ago. Now, they’re getting in front of me and trying to get in my way instead of taking big runs at me. With guys like (Glenn) Anderson and (Ken) Linseman coming down on them, they can’t afford to take themselves out of the play.

THN: You very rarely get hit solidly.

WG: I get it about once a year, roughly, if you average it out. It’s surprising how much class a lot of the (opposing) players have. The better players will take you out of the play, but they know there is no prize for putting a guy through the boards. I think that is the difference between pro hockey and junior hockey. Everybody in junior hockey tries to run everybody out of the rink whereas pro hockey is a game of getting in front of people, holding, punching, grabbing. Only the odd time will you see a guy get really nailed. But there’s a reason for that. Pro hockey is much faster than junior hockey. It’s tough to hit a guy who is going as fast as Glenn Anderson or a guy like Paul Coffey.

THN: Do you stay out of certain areas or situations where you know you are going to get hit?

WG: I don’t stay out of certain areas but I don’t put myself in a position to get hit. That’s the big thing. I mean, a lot of times people get hurt only because they put themselves in that position to get hurt. Our team as a whole plays the same way. The more you keep moving, the faster you go, the harder it is to get hit. You very rarely see guys on our team get hit straight on.

THN: But don’t you intimidate some players, they back up on you rather than come at you for fear of looking foolish?

WG: (pause) I think that’s because I play with such quality players and my biggest asset is to be able to use everyone on the ice. I’m not like a Perreault or a Lafleur, where I’ll skate through a whole team. The secret to our success is moving the puck and going to the holes. If someone backs up on me, I’ll keep going. If he comes at me, I’ll either go around him or pass it off. When you play against our team, you can’t just worry about Wayne Gretzky. Teams that worry only about me never win anything.

THN: What do you think of players in the NHL or the fans who say that if you hit Wayne Gretzky, you’re going to get a penalty just because it’s Wayne Gretzky? Some players say you draw more penalties because of who you are.

WG: Sure, I draw more penalties than most other guys. That’s because I’ve got the puck a lot more. Obviously, the odds are higher for penalties being taken against me. It’s all a matter of opinion. I don’t think the referees favor anybody on the ice. I think they do the best they can but they don’t favor me.

THN: People say you take lots of dives.

WG: Sure I do. I don’t disagree with that. I mean I can’t stand there and let a guy hold me. Like I said, there’s an awful lot of holding, clutching and grabbing in the NHL. People get away with it all the time. That’s great for the checker. But I’m not Bryan Trottier or Mark Messier and I can’t throw someone to the ice or tell him if he does it again, I’ll hit him over the head. Those two guys are strong enough to back that up. If I said that, I’d be laughed at. I have to create room for myself. If a guy’s going to be all over me, sure, I’ll start diving. If it’s called a couple of times, he’ll back off a little. I don’t do it for any reason other than that.

THN: Conversely, do you think referees think twice before calling a penalty because of who you are?

WG: Sure they do. I think it all evens out in the end. There are times when I do get tripped or hooked and it’s never called. But there are times when I’m hooked a little and I dive and it gets called. I don’t do it to embarrass the referee. I do it to get myself out of tight-checking situations. I have a guy on me every game. So does Bossy. You have to do something.

THN: What disturbs you about being shadowed?

WG: I don’t mind being shadowed at all. The only thing that bothers me is that teams forget the point is to win the hockey game, not stop Wayne Gretzky. Fine, if they want to put a shadow on me, I can handle it. I’ve had it since I was six years old. The shadow gets paid to do a job. Doug Risebrough, he’s a great guy. He shadows me, he does a good job. I’ve got no argument with that. He wants to win as bad as I do. But for me, I’ve got to do everything I possibly can to get away from him. I can’t be content to come in after the game and say, ‘Oh yeah, Dougie did a great job of shutting me down.’ I’ll do what I have to to win.

THN: How do you react to people who say all of your statistics and personal accomplishments don’t mean as much unless you win the Stanley Cup?

WG: Sure, I believe that. You play pro hockey for one reason — to win the Stanley Cup. I believe you’re a winner when you win it all. But in defense of that, it takes 20 guys to win a Stanley Cup. One guy can’t do it alone. If that were true, then Boston would have won eight years in a row because Bobby Orr was so dominant. One guy can’t play 60 minutes. So what I’m saying is that I don’t disagree with people who say that, but in defense of it, it takes 20 guys.

THN: People say that about Marcel Dionne, that he’s not a truly great player because he hasn’t won a Stanley Cup?

WG: That’s malarkey. If Marcel Dionne played on a good team, he’d be twice as good a hockey player. It’s as simple as that. What gets me is how some people will say Wayne Gretzky does so well because he plays on a good team. That’s fine, I agree with that. But how can the same people say in the same breath that Marcel Dionne isn’t that great because his team has never won anything. What Marcel Dionne is doing is amazing, considering the team he is on.