MARYLAND HEIGHTS, Mo. -- By his own admission, Doug Armstrong let you, the fans, down.
The Blues' general manager has worked with a cap-ceiling team for most of his tenure, if not all of it, since he took over as GM in 2010 -- and has added president of hockey operations to his title. And the 58-year-old has maintained the franchise on high standards ever since.
But in putting together a roster for the 2022-23 season on the heels of pushing the defending Stanley Cup champion Colorado Avalanche in the second round of the playoffs, it fell far below expectations this season with the team falling out of the playoffs for the first time since 2017-18, finishing at 37-38-7.
The media had a session of Armstrong Unplugged, or it could have been even more of an unplugged session had we talked to him immediately after a Game 82 loss at Dallas. But in any case, Armstrong hits on the topics of falling below expectations, replacing two assistant coaches, on some of the individual play, getting back the culture the Blues had built up, looking ahead to the draft and how much, if any, will the player personnel change and how so, whether the Blues are in a retool or rebuild, and a slew of other things:
Opening statement:
Well, I'll start it off ... this would have been a way better interview if we would have done it Thursday night (after the season ended); you would have got a lot more out of me, a lot more juicy stuff out of me than you'll get today (at the season-ending media press conference). ... Obviously it's a ending of a very disappointing year for our franchise. Expectations were higher, goals weren't met. It starts with the [general] manager not obviously bringing the right players in, the right support staff in to get to this point. My job now is to take time to evaluate where we're at, where our players are at individually, where they are collectively, work with Craig [Berube] on assembling a staff that can get us to a higher standard on a day to day basis. What I said to the players, we're going to find out and we're going to answer our own question is, 'Is this an aberration or is this a trend?' And if it's a trend, we're all going to have really bad years moving forward, and if it's an aberration, we're going to move ahead. I'm not talking about wins and losses, I'm talking about how we win and lose games, I'm talking about the competitive nature of our team, I'm talking about what we see each and every day on how we come to work and how we feel about when we go home from work. When you're working with a high-demanding coaching staff, there was about 15 minutes a night, 66 percent of the year I loved, and that was driving home from the plane or driving home from the arena with a smile on my face knowing that tomorrow morning, I was going to get a call from an agent who was going to yell at me that his player didn't get enough ice time, or I was going to have a player in my office telling me how the coach screwed him, but for that 15 minutes a night for 66 percent of the time, it was a great ride home. I didn't have nearly good enough good ride homes, and I want to get back to enjoying at least 15 minutes a night next year. It might not be coming in wins and losses, but there's too many nights I went home feeling I let our fanbase down by not creating a team that was competitive enough. And that's on me.
On players talking about getting culture back, professionalism, little details; all seemed to agree they all slipped this year:
Well it's going to start in training camp. I think we have to have a highly-competitive camp. I think there has to be a standard that we set in camp. I also think it's our practice habits. There were too many practices where we would not shoot enough, we would miss the net in our shot attempts, we would over-pass it. The next drill would go on and the same thing would happen and then the next night, we go 14 or 15 minutes with no shots on net and we're going, 'Jeez, how did that happen,' or our defensive zone coverage, we would practice it and there would be no competitive nature to our practice in front of the net. We would give up scoring opportunities in practice and it was just acceptance, and that bled into our season, I believe. I think our training camp and our practice habits are going to be indicative of how we play each and every night and it's our commitment to those things that are going to be important every night. Work has to be thought of as enjoyable, not a punishment. I felt this was the first year where our group felt work was punishment. There's 16 teams that don't feel like that, but ultimately there's going to be one team that never thought like that once all year long. I keep going back to the admiration I have for what Jim Montgomery, Don Sweeney, Cam Neely have built in Boston for a year. Now is it going to be like that next year? I don't know, but all I know is this year, they've been the standard that we've all looked at offensively, defensively, competitively that give you hope in hockey that those players still exist. Now they might lose four straight, but it's still not going to affect how I think they did this year.
When you put together your roster, you have good intent. How do you compare the intent of what you did building the roster compared to how it played out?
I'm not sitting here today shocked that we're not in the playoffs so I've probably had some time to digest it. I haven't had enough time to go through with it with the people that I really value their opinions on that, which obviously starts with Craig. His job up until two nights ago was to prepare. Now he has to evaluate and self-evaluate his staff and evaluate the players on how it got to be non-competitive. I just think we as an organization let our standards slip to what was acceptable in the things that the things fans never saw, which was the practice session, the preparedness for a practice. There's things you see. When the guys go on the ice at 11 o'clock and I go get a coffee at 10:50 to go out and watch and you see what guys are doing to prepare, I've never seen before, and those are things that we have to address, and they're little things. There's things I don't understand and I've said to some of the veteran players that this is the most disconnect I've felt with the largest part of our organization, our players. It started in the pandemic. I refer to my kids because they're in their late 20's now and so they don't know what an 18-25-year-old's dealing with now and it's something to be totally different. I have to spend the summer and Craig has to spend the summer talking to people, professional people that know what these players go through, what makes them tick, because what makes me tick was what my dad used to do, which was cuff me upside the head and kick me in the ass and not really care what I thought about it (laughing). That's now working anymore. I was able to understand what the 20-30 year-old was going through when I see how my kids were reacting to things in life. I don't get it anymore, and it's my job to get it or get out. That's my summer project is to work with people to find out how do you get to these guys, what makes them tick. Like an example for me would be players today, there's a group of players, and I'm not saying they're bad or they're wrong or it's I have to understand how to get to them, they'll play 18 minutes to get an 18-second shift that can go on YouTube and get a million likes and think that was a good night. I have to understand what makes them think like that, and how how do we say, 'You can have that, but can you also give us this?' It's a good summer project for an old man.
Are you talking about bringing in a sports psychologist?
Yeah, I have to find people ... I don't really need to know what's going through the mind of a 21-year-old at Mizzou. I need to know what's going through a 21-year-old high-level athlete, and so I have to find out who's dealing with high-level athletes from 18-25 and I have to ask them, 'What do I need to do to give them the best chance for success,' because I don't believe I'm doing that right now because I don't believe I understand what they're going through.
On preparation and practice habits, looking at your leadership group as well. Is there a guy on your roster right now you're comfortable putting a 'C' on their jersey? Do you have that guy on your team right now who can lead this team moving forward?
It's something I want to (discuss) with Craig. It's something I thought about when Alex [Pietrangelo] left is that what is the role of a captain and is the role of a captain in sport anymore? I don't know if there is. I think you have such a group dynamic in everything that these guys deal with. A leadership group, this group, that group. I don't know if you need a 'C' or if you need multiple 'A's to pull a team together. I also think that if you're a leader, you don't need a 'C.' You don't need Rich Matthews to sew a letter of the alphabet on your jersey to indicate that you're a leader. You're going to do that with your actions every day, but that's more a global question on the captaincy and that's something I've been struggling quite honestly since Petro left. Is it a one-man job anymore? My inner circle are ex-players in [Scott] Mellanby and [Al] MacInnis, Timmy Taylor; non-players Peter Chiarelli, who's won a Stanley Cup, a Presidents' Trophy, been to the finals. I have a good inner circle. I've got to tap into those guys to and what they think we need to do, and I also got to go to my rolodex of guys that I've got a ton of respect for that are recently retired. The Barret Jackmans of the world, maybe the David Backes's of the world, people that I know internationally from other organizations. It's time for me to learn and grow so I can support these guys.
Are you saying there may not be a 'C' next year?
I haven't decided, but I'm saying that there certainly a possibility there couldn't be. I guarantee we won't be announcing one in the next few months.
Do you make the final decision on the 'C' if there will be one?
Ultimately it is, yes, just because I think when you're doing something like that, you have to have a vision past a current year. You don't want to have revolving 'C's. As I say that and we've had revolving 'C's, but it's not something that you put on someone hoping that it lasts a year or two so you can do it again. But ultimately, I won't do it in a vacuum where I'll just wake up one day and not let anyone know what I'm doing, But I think that's the management's responsibility. Other guys think it totally different. Other guys have a team vote. But you have a team vote and next year, seven of the guys that voted for you are gone, where are your leadership skills? Where's your base? I guess it won't go to a vote (laughing).
Do you feel like you're close to getting back to playoffs, are you far away?
I say I would have been a great interview Thursday. I say we're at the 50-yard line and I'm hoping to go towards the offensive zone, not the defensive zone from the 50. I said to a couple of the players, 'This is the most self-serving comment I'm going to be able to make in one day is that with [Brayden] Schenn and [Pavel] Buchnevich and [Brandon] Saad and [Jordan] Kyrou and [Robert] Thomas and [Colton] Parayko and [Justin] Faulk and [Nick] Leddy and [Torey] Krug and [Jordan] Binnington, I can't believe it's a total rebuild. I don't think those guys would allow that to happen. They were a part of a snowball that was going downhill that they weren't able to stop. Well, we're at the bottom now; I can't believe that they'll ever allow it to get here again. So I think we're in a transition phase, but I think we're going to transition quicker than an eight- or a nine-year rebuild. I'm not going to be shocked if we're in the playoffs next year and I'm not going to be shocked if we do damage next year in the playoffs. But we need to be playing meaningful games a lot longer than we played this year or else maybe my assessment of the guys I just talked about was incorrect and we are in a rebuild and we'll deal with it then. I don't think we're there yet, but as you can tell by the wavering of that answer, I'm not 100 percent committed to that either.
Those names you mentioned is a pretty good starting point, isn't it?
Well again, self-serving, I think it is, but we're here today because we didn't get it done, so maybe I have to reassess that. I don't want to reassess it. I believe in those guys.
On sending Cup winners away in trades and getting assets for them, speaking to the fans, were those moves made like you feel you can right this pretty quickly?
I think it gives us an opportunity to right the ship quicker if we so desire, meaning Pick 10, which we hope is one, two or three, but it's going to be no worse than 11 or 12 or however the lottery falls. I find it hard to believe you're not going to see me step up to the stage in Nashville and give a guy a jersey, but the ones after that, they're up for debate. They are up for debate that if we can find players that fit into the age group to grow with, I said 26-27 would be the absolute max, you're going to have at least three years of term left on your contract, got to see a vision where you're part of today plus tomorrow. With those picks, this is the fun part of having the extra picks, things I haven't done in a long time is I've gone through everybody's second round draft grid. Who's got the picks now that I can set the table for that if there's a guy there you want to chase, let me know because we might move back. Are there players that were picked in the last couple drafts that we think we can maybe use one of our thirds and one of those firsts to acquire a player to expedite. Are we willing to use a third-round pick to expedite our growth by two years? There's so many things now we get to do and there's so much research I have to work on how to do it because we haven't been in this spot. I want to learn quickly on how to do it, then I never want to have to do it again.
When did you know this team was not going to make the playoffs?
After the eight-game losing streak, I think we met at the five-game mark of that losing streak and said we're only 10 percent into the year, but we better turn it around because 10 goes to 20 pretty quick and 20 to 30 and then you're chasing something you're not going to catch. I thought our response after the five-game meeting wan't good. It didn't resonate what I said. Said to them, said to you guys. There was no resonation and then we played a season of highs and lows. What did win, seven after we lost eight? Then we probably lost ... it just never felt comfortable that we had an identity or a foundation and we looked like a group when things were going good, we were going good, and when things were going bad, we were going bad, and we couldn't extend the good times, maybe a game or two than they should have gone and we couldn't stop the bad times a game or two longer than they should have been stopped, and when you do that, you're tugging on your emotional strings. I'm an emotional person and I think the coaches and players are emotional too and it's hard to wake up with a different personality like we had this year so many times. I didn't enjoy it, my wife didn't enjoy it. When did I know? It wasn't deep into the season that I thought we were in trouble.
Do you feel those 25-, 26-, 27-year-olds are out there to be acquired for those late first-round picks?
I think there might be a player or two. What it's going to be too is who gets popped in the first round that didn't think they were going to get popped in the first round, then has an owner saying, 'I don't care what you do, do this.' Once you get to the final four, those are good years that are either going to go from good to great but they're going to end up as good years. There might be one franchise, maybe two in the first round that think that that was a good year. There's 16 unhappy people now. We've got to keep eight chairs open two weeks from now so eight more guys can join our unhappy ship and then at that point you're going to have an understanding of what teams are trying to do. I think there will be teams out there that might want to move younger players for picks that might believe that they're more comfortable with a longer rebuild than maybe we are that we can see if there's a match.
If all four of your top defensemen come back with a new d-coach, do you think they can be good enough to get this defense right again?
I do. We're in the Show-Me State so this is it. If we're here with the same core group of D in the same spot, you don't have to ask that question ever again. I do believe that they're good enough, but we're past what does the manager believe to what can they do. We're going to give them the opportunity. I and Craig will work together to find the right coach. I'm going to want the insight on the way they believe the game should be played, how the game's evolved from their position, what type of support that they thought they needed from the forwards they didn't get. I'm going to talk to Jordan Binnington about it. I said to the players, 'I'm the manager, Craig's the coach, but we work together.' I work with the players, the players work with me. I need their insight and then they have to let me do my job, but I do believe in collaboration to get their ideas on how today's game is being played, and so we can make the proper decision on what coach to bring in. In sport, probably now it's almost college sport but certainly in pro sport now, Mike Van Ryn got terminated after a good run here because we underperformed. Mike Van Ryn's certainly not the reason we underperformed. It's just the nature of today's beast that you have to make changes for the sake of finding out where other people are at. I should have started that with thanking Mike for a long run here, part of a championship team, worked with guys, guys knew that 'Ryno' cared about them, somebody that I was promoting last year for head coaching jobs that got interviews, someone that I will promote for jobs as soon as the phone rings. He's a helluva coach and he's got a helluva career. And 'MacT,' I want to thank him. I talked to him and I told some of our veteran players I don't know what 'MacT' ... 'MacT' was brought in to help us get over the hump again, to work with guys because he had won so many Stanley Cups and because he had been with organizations that could help you get to the next level. We got stuck in the starting block, so I never thought we gave 'MacT' an opportunity to share the things I thought he could share with an experienced group because we were floundering, as you asked when, right from the get-go, so it was hard for my vision of what I thought 'Mac' could bring to us. I could never tap in and have the guys tap into it because we never got to that level.
Is experience important for the next assistant coaching hire?
I would say that the resume pool is going to be open for all applicants, from junior hockey to college hockey to American League hockey to NHL experience to no experience coaching. I want to get working on my summer projects so I can find the right guys that has the skill sets to deal with today's people. I don't think there's a wide variance between how Schenn thinks and [Jake] Neighbours thinks. I don't think it's that huge, but there are small things in there and if we can get a coach that can understand those small things, it's only going to help us. But answering that, there is no checkbox that you have to fill out as of yet, but Craig and I have to sit down with the insight that I gain from the players and Craig gains from the players finding the right guy that checks the boxes that we create. The boxes haven't been created yet.
Hire two assistants or one?
My initial thought would be two because we let two go, but again, I have to find out what Craig thinks works best for him.
On Binnington's season and his actions at times:
Binner and I have talked about that. Competitively, he's at a nine level all the time and it can roll over when things aren't going well for the organization and I think it rolled over for him. I think he understands that. He and I have had some frank conversations about what life's going to be like for the next two years. It's not going to be easy. The NHL, the teams, they perceive that he's a gainable target and I've told him that, 'you're going to have to live with it. You've created it, you own it, you enjoy it, well you've got to live with it now,' so there's going to be the extra bump, it's going to be the extra whack on the glove, it's going to be the extra little talking in the crease and it's not going to be when the game's 2-1, it's going to be when the game's 4-1 or he's having a bad night. When you're in the zone, they can say whatever they want. When your team's competitive, they can say whatever they want. That doesn't affect you. It affects you when you're angry or at least it does for myself when you're at your wits end, it's just that tiny little straw that breaks the camel's back, and Binner's put himself in a spot where he's going to have to reinforce the back because he's created an environment for himself where guys are going to push him. I think he's going to get through it, I think he can get through it, I think he's a good goalie. I talked to him today about it. His numbers are not going to get better until we get better defensively. How many backdoor tap-ins went in this year? So you can make eight great saves and have two back-end tap-ins and have an .800 save percentage. Not indicative of the play, indicative of the score, so we have to get better defensively to give him an opportunity to get his numbers back. For us to have a good team, his numbers have to indicate that he's a top goalie.
Any injuries that will need surgeries this summer that could affect camp in September?
I haven't heard from the doctors. Going into the last few games, I haven't heard of anything, no.
On Kyrou's relationship with Berube, any issues there at all?
Going back again, those are things I've got to understand what makes guys tick, but I think emotion is great. I think having a heated conversation is not a bad thing because it means you're engaged and the guy you're in the heat of conversations is engaged. I've never seen a one-sided heated conversation. It doesn't bother me. You don't want to lose focus of what's going on. If you're talking about the Nashville (game), that's the perfect heated conversation you want to see as a manager. The period's over, you're argument's not taking away what's going on the ice to where the other skater's are like, 'Would you guys shut up? We're getting ready for a shift here.' If you're going to have it heated like that, not I wish it would have waited eight more seconds until they got down the tunnel so they didn't have to deal with it publicly, but I love emotion and I don't want to take the emotion out of Craig. I'm never going to neuter Craig's ability to show emotion or the players, so that doesn't bother me one iota. Binner's stuff doesn't really bother me. It bother's me when it's not done for the team's sake, but that doesn't happen very often. When it goes to a level that the other team perceives they have an advantage, that's a concern, but I didn't see that with that situation you were talking about or most of them in general.
On play of Blais, Vrana, Kapanen:
I thought they all took advantage of a new situation and I thought it was great to see. I try and look at it from the outside so you're coming into a franchise having a bad day, having a bad year and you walk in and say, 'What's everyone so glum about?' They weren't part of it, so they actually brought some positive energy to us and then they started to have fun and they started to score goals and all of the sudden, 'Torp' got a little happier and [Nathan] Walker got a little happier and [Tyler] Pitlick got a little happier and we started to play with a little more joy. They helped change the last six weeks of our attitude, but now we need everyone to have that attitude coming in when things are going good or bad. I would say that if those players have an 82-game season like they had when they got here, we're going to be very happy with their productions.
With fans wanting change to the roster, how much can you actually do since you're going to be a cap team again?
We've got five unrestricteds. Our fans saying move core players, I'm not guaranteeing that's not going to happen, but not a lot of core players move in the NHL. When they have, we've been part of them. We've moved core players and we've brought core players in, but to think there's just a hockey store I'm going to go to and say, 'OK, I'm just going to grab one of these and I'll put that back on the shelf, I'm done with that.' It doesn't work that way. But we are going to be active to see if we can improve our team, but I can't guarantee anything's going to change. But it's not because I'm going to Barbados for five months and come back in September and say, 'What's new?'
Is your stance different as far as not diving into free agency this year?
We're not going to be a major player unless things change. And if things change, that means cap space is open. As of today, no, we're not going to be a major player. Now ... stay tuned.
Taking any players with you to the World Championships with Canada?
I'm going to let Hockey Canada announce that at the right time. I think we have a few players that are going to go and I'll let their federations announce it.
Disappointed Thomas and Kyrou can't go to that (because of investigation into 2018 world junior team)?
Yeah, I'm always disappointed when hockey players can't do what they love to do. I understand it's Hockey Canada's decision, I understand the gravity of the situation that Hockey Canada's dealing with. I do feel for the players. I don't know was involved, I don't know exactly what was done. I do feel guilty until proven innocent is a hard way to go through life, but that's the decisions that's made, not by Hockey Canada but by society now is guilty until proven innocent and the retractions are usually on page 35 and the headlines are on page one. But I am disappointed they can't go, I'm disappointed for all the players that can't go.
Will you have any non-Canadians play (already been announced Kapanen will play for Finland)?
For Canada, no (joking). Yeah, I hope so. I hope so. I can only speak for the way North American teams do it. The U.S. and Canada will call the general manager of their NHL teams and ask about the player's health, ask if you are OK if they go. Are there things they're dealing with that we should know? The European countries sort of just call the players directly so I don't know exactly who's been talked to.
On Leo Loof, his season in Sweden, plan on signing him:
Yes. He's a player that we want to get over to North America. Again, let's promise less and deliver more, but we're excited. We're excited for him. [Marc-Andre] Gaudet, [Michael] Buchinger we're excited for. Three 'D' that are sort of coming out of not high draft picks but are playing well. The three main guys that I'm excited to see next year in (developmental) camp are going to be [Jimmy] Snuggerud, what a great year he had coming off of where he was drafted. Now can he sustain that at the U, I talked to him and he's excited about grabbing leadership responsibilities at the school, which is good. It's going to be a great opportunity for him, a true 18-year-old draft. He has the world juniors ahead of him, I think again, and as a sophomore, he's going to have an opportunity to play with good players again and hopefully win a national championship. [Zach] Dean is a player that we got that I'm excited about. His point totals are off the charts in the playoffs. They hammered a team. I'm not expecting that point total as the competition increases, but I've had a couple scouts saying I know our philosophy is to bake them in the minors for a while, but this kid could surprise us; and [Zach] Bolduc. Bolduc now, every round he plays in, it's harder to score in. It's harder to get opportunities in and I think what Timmy Taylor said is that Bolduc's going to have to understand when he's not scoring, he has to affect the game, and he's done that better this year. That'll be the step for him. So I'm excited about some of the off-the-radar guys and I'm excited about sort of the headliners to see where they get to. I would say in '25-'26, there's going to be ... I said to some of our players now, the [Tyler] Tuckers coming in and the [Nikita] Alexandrovs coming in and the [Joel] Hofers coming in, there's going to be other players coming in that are going to help us get better, but the three I just described could be difference-makers and I'm looking forward to seeing if A) are they players at all; B) are they going to end up being difference-makers on good teams. They seem to have the talent level. Let's see if they can get to it.
On Tanner Dickinson's health:
He's doing well. He had the leg injuries, the major surgeries. He's back skating now. He wanted to come back and try and play, but this year, we were like there's not enough to gain for what's at risk. He's doing really well skating, training. He's going to be at our development camp. All indications are he's going to be at a couple rookie games this year that we're doing different. I don't know if you guys know, but we started a three-team rotation with Chicago and Minnesota, so we're going to go to Minny next year. The home team will play on night one and three, The visiting teams will play on nights one and two or two and three. So we're going up to Minny for that. I'm excited about that. A little less stress on the players to get ready for camp. Three in four and four in five (games) was a lot to ask so I'm looking forward to that, but Dickinson himself is doing well.
Do you look at Buchnevich as a center going forward or still up in the air?
I haven't gone through that with the coach yet; still a work in progress. I just met with 'Buchy' and I said, 'Regardless of your position, you've now worked yourself into a position of being a counted on player in all situations and 200 feet.' Before I think 'Buchy' would look at his offensive success to indicate whether he had a good game and I said not that we expect him to be this guy; [Patrice] Bergeron, there's a guy that can play a game and have zeroes across the board and he the most effective player. That's where a guy like 'Buchy,' we need to see if he can get to, which is being a dominant player when the puck's not going for you, and that's a mindset. That's being willing to go from potentially an 85-point player to a 70-point player and see that being a good thing, not a bad thing. And that's a maturity level and that's where I think 'Buchy's at not and I think he's excited about that. Whether it's at the middle of the ice or the wing, a lot will be predicated on what we do and certainly I've got to see what the coach and get his vision of how it works out.
Do you think Berube has adapted to the way the game is being played now and the job he's done overall?
Yeah, I think it's a work in progress and I think if I need to ... Craig and I are both the same age, so we both can probably learn on how we can affect positive change in young people, but it's not really that complicated hockey. It's practice hard, have a good training camp, attention to details, good things usually happen. Now, Craig's going to get better, I'm going to get better, we're all going to get better and if we're not, then we're all going to get replaced.
On Scott Perunovich:
I watched him last night (this is a week old). I'm excited that they're playing meaningful games. They were down 2-0 and won 7-2. They're still fighting for home ice advantage in that first round. Got two games left. Scotty's doing what he does really well, really well. Made some plays last night, made an unreal play where he bought time and space for himself, took it behind the net and then went up the wall, threw it to a guy in the slot, [Hugh] McGing for a great shot I think it was. He's doing things really well, playing a long playoff series and multiple series would be good for him because it gets him out of his comfort level of doing what you do well to do what you have to do to win. You all know what the difference is when you watch playoff hockey. It's the same in the American League, They circle your name and they circle it for three, five, seven nights in a row. That usually separates the men from the boys.
Decision to keep him in AHL and not being him back at end of NHL season:
It was just based on that he needed stability in what he was doing. I didn't think coming up here playing 15 or 14 minutes was going to change what he needed to have success with. So him staying down there and staying focused like this and bringing up guys that have been down there all year long to give them a taste of something Scotty's never had, made sense to us.
And Perunovich is healthy now:
Yes. As of now.