{"time":1782592155323,"blocks":[{"id":"Y4E72Vg7nY","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Hello and welcome to The Hockey News OHL's coverage of day two of the 2026 NHL draft."}},{"id":"lDoxRgOuBZ","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"This page will update live with every player from across the league being selected Saturday in Buffalo."}},{"id":"fE5vT6hfp5","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"For a look back at first-round coverage, please head to this link. "}},{"id":"vTGTIbUaWT","type":"header","data":{"text":"End of draft ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"d-8VhJuMsL","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Thank you for tuning into The Hockey News OHL's coverage of the 2026 NHL draft. "}},{"id":"foCy58SxkT","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"In total, 45 OHL players were selected this year, as well as four with previously-announced commitments to play in the league next season, and one player from the GOJHL. "}},{"id":"xMdY6CqBQ4","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 223 (Los Angeles Kings): Lucas Ambrosio ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"1dhin7m94Y","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A good skater and strong defender, Erie blueliner Ambrosio represented Canada at the recent U18 worlds, and is now a draft pick to the LA Kings."}},{"id":"Ky1H5W7IgS","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 222 (New Jersey Devils): Quinn McKenzie ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"jpSCCQQq_I","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"McKenzie put up some decent numbers in his one year with Soo, posting 21 goals and 51 points in 65 games. He's off to Penn State for next season."}},{"id":"AI48p3Dvnd","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 221 (Montreal Canadiens): Jean-Samuel Daigneault ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"0VFwCZt47d","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Daigneault just signed in Brantford the other day for next season, with the big physcial blueliner a pretty good replacement for fellow Habs prospect Owen Protz."}},{"id":"qflOsbFyvj","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 214 (Colorado Avalanche): Ondrej Ruml ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"ppcJJZWAGD","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another Ottawa player getting picked, Ruml had a decent season as a two-way D but really popped at the U18 Worlds, where he put up six assists in seven games for Czechia."}},{"id":"IpdFdGEaHS","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 203 (St. Louis Blues): Colin Fitzgerald ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"sGJJb4xHxz","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A former no. 3 pick of Peterborough, Fitzgerald moved to Soo last year after his OHL career didn't quite start out how he had hoped."}},{"id":"mDjThnJsxF","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Still, the Blues bet on the upside of the 6-foot-2, hard-shooting centreman."}},{"id":"zh-CVr69jP","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 201 (San Jose Sharks): Alexander Karmanov ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"3KtEd8UI0U","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The 7-foot-1 blueliner does get picked, with the absolutely massive Karmanov heading to the Sharks. The Moldovan-born blueliner has a long way to go in his development, but could become the tallest player in NHL history."}},{"id":"Gg4fjTqMop","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 198 (Seattle Kraken): Rylan Singh ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"58j2oD6rXB","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It feels like half of Guelph's roster has been drafted today, and Rylan Singh is next up in that line. The hard-working blueliner put up 23 points in 52 games last season, his second in the league."}},{"id":"FcW7cm9zdd","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 197 (Dallas Stars): Jasper Kuhta ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"RRGNyXEeSJ","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The skilled, dual-threat Finnish winger Kuhta heads out to Dallas as an overage pick. "}},{"id":"QjRN37IlYR","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"In 62 games with Ottawa, he had 63 points, and is heading to UMass of the NCAA next season."}},{"id":"Xk31Q-BXLL","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 191 (Vegas Golden Knights): Matthew Minchak ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"ua-Lqa2qcj","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Frontenacs goalie stands at 6-foot-5 and put up a .910 save percentage in 30 games last season in Kingston."}},{"id":"s2-RSxhlZ4","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's committed to Colgate University for 2026-27."}},{"id":"1iBNxvp4a5","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 190 (Montreal Canadiens): Wesley Royston ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"wjOJCFdj9a","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A big guy that lays the body, Royston dominated the combine and uses his body to inflict pain on opponents."}},{"id":"RDSyYp16qI","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"As a forward, he'll need to add more offence to his game to really make it at the pro level."}},{"id":"nYERgkgqGI","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 186 (Tampa Bay Lightning): Stepan Shurygin ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"r05iw85nCN","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"That makes both of Saginaw's goalie tandem for 2026-27 drafted today, with Shurygin following Knowling's earlier selection."}},{"id":"JqtivBPwcK","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Russian import is big at 6-foot-4, and really aggressive at cutting down angles in the goal."}},{"id":"X80GKQLxiP","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 181 (Florida Panthers): Cole Zurawski ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"XiXIuczC7-","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Zurawski is a solid dual-threat winger that put up 24 goals and 22 assists with Owen Sound in his draft year, and crushed it at the combine."}},{"id":"7FU9wHOiHI","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's committed to NCAA Notre Dame for next season."}},{"id":"-xc4DSdIjg","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 180 (Edmonton Oilers): Caden Harvey ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"sNkVn0oHvu","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another American on Windsor, Harvey is a solid two-way winger who wins battles and can produce secondary offence at the junior level."}},{"id":"Jtk7X5sLJX","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 177 (Los Angeles Kings): Alex Kostov ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"nN8cJBnMEc","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Kings have gone back to the OHL, taking overager Kostov out of Flint. In 47 games this season with the Firebirds, he put up 55 points."}},{"id":"0eSjJy-a_u","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 176 (Vancouver Canucks): Lucian Bernat ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"YQNDpYCRr_","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another player who has yet to make his OHL debut, Slovak import Bernat just signed with the Owen Sound Attack last week."}},{"id":"AlmSJLAwdk","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 169 (Toronto Maple Leafs): Brody Pepoy ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"uNc1MqmlYc","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The hard-working Pepoy heads to Toronto after a 16-goal rookie season with Saginaw. He's committed to NCAA Lindenwood in 2027-28."}},{"id":"vysGsqbDvG","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 165 (Carolina Hurricanes): Zach Jovanovski ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"pXBuGvAzme","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another goalie, and another Guelph player off the board, with Jovanovski heading to Carolina. The 6-foot-3 goaltender will play in a lot of big games next season on the Memorial Cup hosts."}},{"id":"rk6z_yBJ2e","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 163 (New York Rangers): Darian Anderson ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"OibhRzxGQK","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It's back-to-back OHL picks from the Rangers, grabbing Darian Anderson from Flint. The double overager came over from the USHL, putting up 45 points in 60 games."}},{"id":"7OyrSEhmq9","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 162 (New York Rangers): Andre Mondoux ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"RCArIoVv4F","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Rangers are back in the OHL, taking the big and physical defenseman Andre Mondoux from the Kingston Frontenacs."}},{"id":"QiiDIPglxf","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 157 (Boston Bruins): Jacob Vandeven ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"MfwN5D_7H5","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Clearly, a Bruins scout sees something in Vandeven's upside, as he played the majority of the season in the GOJHL with the Komoka Kings, getting into just eight regular season games with the London Knights."}},{"id":"-NYRFPAxnP","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"That being said, the Knights think highly of him and he did get into four playoff games, so maybe there's a good long-term upside bet here."}},{"id":"tNvigd89iS","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 155 (Dallas Stars): Ryan Brown ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"44gMnzV5Dz","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Dallas' first pick in a long time is London's Brown, who really put his draft stock back on the table after a mid-season trade to the Knights."}},{"id":"FhgP0dQ9B_","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He plays with a ton of energy, and has some good skill as he zips around the ice, despite being a smaller player."}},{"id":"M8mXrsjb2o","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 151 (Ottawa Senators): Harris Pangretitsch ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"sLVi67dfkz","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Soo Greyhounds defender follows the trend the Sens usually follow at the draft, taking big and physical blueliners."}},{"id":"OCNi3maTn9","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Pangretitsch's biggest strengths are stopping opposing rushes and quickly starting rushes of his own."}},{"id":"iDKDvhDItb","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 150 (St. Louis Blues): Carter Stevens ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"KkCNMCLnNf","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It's been a good round five for the Guelph Storm, with Stevens being their third player off the board in the last 10 picks."}},{"id":"oIPn1NpMZY","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"An inside-driven forward, Stevens has some pro traits to his game that clearly enamoured scouts."}},{"id":"55NssRkUsp","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 146 (Anaheim Ducks): Eric Frossard ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"QyOzr5tmH-","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The big, 6-foot-6 Storm blueliner is heading to Anaheim, with Frossard's defensive game and IQ standout traits. However, he lacks a bit of offence and will need to improve his play with the puck."}},{"id":"q5KkmXwGgk","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 143 (Detroit Red Wings): Beckham Edwards ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"7UL_EWfNEo","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Edwards slipped further than expected after a tough year on a bad Sarnia team, but finds a home now with the Red Wings."}},{"id":"vcXshfEfMC","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's expected to head to the University of Notre Dame for 2026-27."}},{"id":"pXM0q5j0pV","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 141 (New York Islanders): Vladimir Dravecky ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"XtqkGY7mkU","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Dravecky, who was just traded from Brantford to Guelph, was stuck behind some very good players on a loaded Bulldogs blue line last year, but showed some flashes of strong puck-moving and skating ability"}},{"id":"-4sAPDH_UO","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Read our full draft profile here."}},{"id":"ONB-l4HsWo","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 133 (Edmonton Oilers): Andrew Robinson ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"r0vikz1nPX","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Robinson filled a depth role on a very solid Spitfires team last year, and is a strong rush defender."}},{"id":"5DVuvK793l","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 132 (Calgary Flames): Simon Katolicky","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"fmYHiyCXfi","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A big winger, Katolicky will join the Sarnia Sting ahead of 2026-27 season. "}},{"id":"ihHRxgqXzt","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 127 (San Jose Sharks): Brady Knowling","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"LLO1jgKvHx","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"There's been a run of goalies here, and the Saginaw Spirit's newest signing Knowling is next up here."}},{"id":"Yi7JQjBvyj","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He hasn't yet played an OHL game, but he'll head to Saginaw for 2026-27 before playing for Boston University in 2027-28."}},{"id":"keh4iHeWK0","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 125 (Carolina Huricanes): Ryder Fetterolf","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"LrMjJ-30Sp","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It's been a minute since an OHL player went, and the Hurricanes break that streak with Fetterolf, the 2026 CHL goaltender of the year with the Ottawa 67's."}},{"id":"-6IKmWAaGR","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Pittsburgh native is a bit undersized, but is a huge battler and exceptional positionally. He's headed to Penn State University for 2026-27."}},{"id":"dyozBsi88J","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 111 (Pittsburgh Penguins): Parker Von Richter","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"PpOi5mrF6C","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Penguins have gone heavy in selecting CHLers this year, and now take the physcial overage defender Von Richter, coming off a strong season with Barrie."}},{"id":"h7BkwLG8NA","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The strong two-way blueliner is heading to the University of New Hampshire next season."}},{"id":"2-9w00CNJA","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 108 (Detroit Red Wings): Adam Levac","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"dhGHcrUxOP","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It's another Peterborough player off the board, with Levac being picked by Detroit on his birthday."}},{"id":"b9_0SnZCk5","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He took a big step in his second season with the Petes, recording 44 points in 60 games."}},{"id":"MYkbwSSKhg","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 103 (Los Angeles Kings): Thomas Vandenberg","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"qk4EvMLKy9","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Back to back 67's off the board, with Vandenberg heading out to LA, who traded up to get him."}},{"id":"_f11gi8rt7","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's one of the youngest players available in this year's draft, and had 50 points in 59 games with Ottawa in his draft year."}},{"id":"lheeeYvQx4","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Read our full draft profile here."}},{"id":"em6PijiJoJ","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 102 (New York Rangers): Spencer Bowes","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"BsZNPSuRqd","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"It's an Ottawa 67 off the board, with the quick and shifty Bowes being selected by the Rangers."}},{"id":"DtKEn6gMxj","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He had 23 goals and 42 points in 67 games in his first full OHL season."}},{"id":"9syjTJQtru","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 100 (Calgary Flames): Egor Barabanov ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"WKLu2OdG2P","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another one of the OHL's top overagers is off the board, with the supremely skilled Barabanov heading off to the Flames."}},{"id":"l1Kb9if0PF","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He put up 91 points in 68 games in his one year in Saginaw, and is heading to UMass next season."}},{"id":"Qb2S2JlT23","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 94 (Columbus Blue Jackets): Alessandro Di Iorio ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"5i5osEL-X6","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The responsible and skilled two-way forward in Di Iorio heads to Columbus after a draft season that wasn't quite what he wanted, but was still alright."}},{"id":"UNnyO_KyfY","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A Hockey Canada favourite, he's a two-way centre who represented his country at the U18s last month."}},{"id":"zWUfowAsFt","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 92 (Vegas Golden Knights): Ben Wilmott","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"iBRn-6bZ3Z","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Wilmott had a very successful year in the OHL, coming over to the London Knights from the USHL and becoming an important player for them, before being dealt to Barrie for their OHL final run."}},{"id":"3T-k2sffyK","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's committed to Ohio State University of the NCAA for next year."}},{"id":"LMYaxBWJEc","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 86 (Pittsburgh Penguins): Pierce Mbuyi","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"79hSrFwcwU","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Pens take Mbuyi, a guy who fits their mould of being skilled and smart in all areas of the ice."}},{"id":"NIkq_yKBZE","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Mississauga native had 75 points in 68 games with the Owen Sound Attack in his draft year, and is expected to head to NCAA Penn State next year."}},{"id":"UMMYtpMXas","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 72 (Ottawa Senators): Adam Nemec","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"FZJ8PHt6Ku","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Sudbury Wolves' Slovak import is off the board, joining the Ottawa Senators organization."}},{"id":"_uJBKx8aBO","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Nemec joined the Wolves after the World Juniors and put up 35 points in 31 games to bookend the season. He's a good dual threat offensive player with a good shot and solid playmaking impacts."}},{"id":"mqpthfgxXu","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 60 (Toronto Maple Leafs): Alexander Bilecki ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"Ht0N2t3AAf","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Memorial Cup champ Bilecki won't be going too far, heading off to the Toronto Maple Leafs."}},{"id":"Ofr5TnMXCP","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"He's a smooth-skating, puck-moving defenseman who is fantastic in transition and starting attacks. He'll need to improve his defensive game a bit in the next couple of years, but you could see signs of improvement as the season went on."}},{"id":"NwIf_Z-Qgb","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 48 (Florida Panthers): Ryder Cali ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"GQ9rsRF60M","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"A very Panthers-style player, the physical and smart Cali heads out to Sunrise."}},{"id":"yae0Jv_I-g","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The North Bay centre really came along as the year went on, and was a leader with the Battalion by the time the year finished. "}},{"id":"qTFw3HbuCd","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Read our full draft profile here."}},{"id":"1maWg0p1Oy","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 35 (Chicago Blackhawks): Ryan Roobroeck","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"J3AQnbnHGN","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Another top OHLer goes off the board now, with the Blackhawks taking the talented but inconsistent Roobroeck."}},{"id":"xQzBnXgzoZ","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The London, Ont., native was recently dealt to the Guelph Storm, and has a ton of skill and shooting. He's a big body, but doesn't use it quite enough and can be too perimeter at times, but has buckets of skill and a history of being a big scorer."}},{"id":"L2qSS6PCpp","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Read our full draft profile here."}},{"id":"_7jT68pE9Q","type":"header","data":{"text":"Pick 33 (Vancouver Canucks): Brooks Rogowski","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"5T_yNWDzo1","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The Canucks are now three-for-three on selecting OHL talent, with big Brooks Rogowski with the opening pick of the second round."}},{"id":"xApIUzqFwC","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The 6-foot-7 centre had 42 points in 46 games with a rebuilding Oshawa Generals team last season, and uses his big frame and long reach to be a pain below the hashmarks with a bit of soft skill in front."}},{"id":"lp9qF3fnfO","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Read our full draft profile here."}},{"id":"1cCFknNDoj","type":"header","data":{"text":"11:00 a.m. ET: We're back! ","level":2,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"je6tz4h391","type":"image","data":{"caption":"Big Oshawa centre Brooks Rogowski should be off the board pretty early in the second round of the draft. (Photo: Natalie Shaver/OHL Images)","withBorder":false,"withBackground":false,"size":"full","alignment":"center","linkUrl":"","file":{"url":"https://deweb-519a7.b-cdn.net/post-images/04e55b99-5f1b-4710-99eb-2b2e13494683.jpeg","width":2595,"height":1963}}},{"id":"kNPeo56JI8","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"The party should get going pretty quickly on day two from Buffalo."}},{"id":"R50rIs7Kkp","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"After a very solid seven OHLers went in last night's round one, there's still a handful of players available that are projected to go right around this range."}},{"id":"h6k18wVV-7","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Brooks Rogowski, Ryder Cali, Adam Nemec, Ryan Roobroeck and more should be up in the early second round, with dozens more guys from across the OHL ready to be selected as the day goes on."}},{"id":"7PuOsLmNbE","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Never want to miss out on any OHL news? Make sure to bookmark THN's OHL site."}},{"id":"D4HV6vaJ6X","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Also follow @roryyarthur on X/Twitter for more updates."}},{"id":"PGjLDVZzBV","type":"header","data":{"text":"Read more ","level":1,"linkUrl":"","anchor":""}},{"id":"0IGPPEK3Xm","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Bulldogs Pull From USHL Again, Grabbing Physical Defender Jean-Samuel Daigeneault"}},{"id":"IwcVoG7YLX","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Attack Sign Big Slovak Import Lucien Bernat "}},{"id":"V9gYV-TGp-","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Spirit Sign Top American Goaltender, 2026 NHL Draft Prospect Brady Knowling"}},{"id":"eO_3gWTeJw","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Storm Continue To Load Up Ahead Of 2027 Memorial Cup, Adding Ryan Roobroeck From IceDogs "}},{"id":"bSXHXr_Pd5","type":"paragraph","data":{"text":"Knights Sign Top USHL Forward Thomas Zocco As Overager"}}],"version":"2.31.6"}

Waters Family To Remain At The Helm For Erie Otters

Erie Otters Dominate Saginaw In Inspirational Win For Owner & Governor Jim Waters